The x bow and its whereabouts.

DELFTship forum Hull modeling The x bow and its whereabouts.

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    • #36520
      giorgio zuppin

      Hello everybody, i’m just a weekend sailor and by the way interested in hull design and about the dayly facts of merchant marine.
      I was surfing out and on – – have found a report about -Seven Viking, a Next-Generation, Harsh Environment IMR Vessel – a IMR vessel to operate with Statoil in North Sea.
      It’s a nice and interesting design, but what has pulled a light in my mind was the peculiar X bow arrangement: suddenly the courtains of ages broke and a vivid picture of a aegean vessel of 200 BC. appeared to me!
      Nothing changed under the sun? Maybe.
      I know what you can say: war galleys must support a ram, so…
      But, 300 years later romans depictions of several types of vessels, large freighters to fishing boats are still carryng the same bow – musive art in a Villa in Tunisia – it is a Fact.
      Well I think we must now reconsider, on a ship’s design basis, the hullforms or part of it, in a wiew of utility: what’s the best shape for the task assigned.
      And with this bombshell (???!!!) I’ll salute and hope to have some answer.

    • #36536

      it seems to me it’s just the paintjob that makes it resembles those ships.

      Have a nice weekend B)

    • #36553
      iosif gross

      Regarding new boat design and building, I see the process with my eyes:
      An old boat, replacing all the rotten ribs with new, replacing all the planks with new and you have the new boat, exactly same as the old. I suppose the process is going on from 200BC.
      The new evolution in boat design belongs to the Vikings. They don’t have ram bow and built to survive harsh sees.

    • #36567
      giorgio zuppin

      Well, Iosif, it’s a point of wiew: I’ll agree but not on what you state on the Norsemen.
      It was indeed a small revolution in design, but it came out as a linear developement
      of the Kogge design adapted for small, fast boats in a coastal environment with no proper moorings and then stressed out for ocean going raids.
      That’s my point of wiew.
      Anyway what I really ment in the original post – I admit it was a bit murky and not properly
      explained – was that in maritime design, like any other human activity, we can recognize,
      I think, some distinct periods of alternate conformism and then rapid evolution, as
      cultural, political and globally social conditions changes.
      The point about the X bow is that we assist now at a flourish on new or newly adapted – that’s my reference to the ancient world – designs, that are faesible due to our actual technological advance, look back at the last century of marine construction: in some ways it’s a bang.
      Thank you and goodbye.
      Jurgen 54.

    • #36583
      iosif gross

      I have to admit that I was not aware of the Kogge boat design so I made a google search.
      What I find out is that the Kogge design (starts at 950AD) used by the Baltic HANSE tread association from around 1200AD was later than the Viking boats (starts at around 600AD), much bigger and much less seaworthy.
      The Vikings were the first using a deep keel filled with stones for stability. 848AD they reach Island, two years later Greenland and two years Canada (researchers suggest).
      All the mono-hull yachts are based on the Viking design.

      Have a nice day 🙂

    • #36588
      giorgio zuppin

      Touchè. My fault and apologize: I’ve used improperly the word ‘Kogge’ – when you think and write in a language that’s not yours AND you’re not an expert, it happens – Anyway I’ve done a small housework:

      It seems to me that the use of a solid keel and the research for a strong ocean-going style hull, are very old issues: back to the Bronze Age or so.
      Construction methods, technology, size and fashionable hullshape, has varied due to economic demands and the whealtiness of the society.
      Further, maybe we miss the link, but it must be through late empire and Viking design.
      And for Viking design I intend the Knarre, not the Long boat that is a wonderful design, but was not the purpose-built ship for the ocean.
      Hope that all this will redeeme my faults.
      With regards.

    • #36590
      iosif gross

      Hi Jurgen

      Thanks for the PDF file. Worth see it.


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